Hurtling Through Space

Hehehe I like it!

“Atheism itself isn’t a principle, cause, philosophy, or belief system which people fight, die, or kill for. Being killed by an atheist is no more being killed in the name of atheism than being killed by a tall person is being killed in the name of tallness.” Extract from Austin Cline’s website.

Swap the Atheism with Secularism and you’ll have trouble defending this cartoon.

“The triumph of secular humanism with its atheism, evolutionism and situation ethics has led to the rise of gangster statesmen such as Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Fidel Castro, Pol Pot, Robert Mugabe and many more like them……..

Dr. David Barrett, editor of the massive World Christian Encyclopaedia, and author of Cosmos, Chaos and Gospel, and Our Globe and How To Reach It, has documented that Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin was responsible for killing over 40 million people. Joseph Stalin closed down over 48 000 churches, and attempted the liquidation of the entire Christian Church.

Similarly, communist dictator of China Mao Tse Tung launched the Great Proletariat Cultural Revolution, ”History’s most systematic attempt ever, by a single nation, to eradicate and destroy Christianity…” Mao was responsible for killing about 72 million people.

The communist takeover of Cambodia in 1975 resulted in the death of up to 3 million people – a full third of the total population. When we add to these the death toll of communist regimes in Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Angola, Mozambique, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Cuba, and Zimbabwe, the body count is staggering.

As Dostoevsky so eloquently put it: ”If God is dead, then all things are possible!”

The terrifying thing about secular humanist states is that there is no authority above the state to which one can make an appeal. The concept of ”inalienable rights” endowed by a Creator are of course impossible in a secular state. If the state itself is the highest authority, then there are no limits to the abuses and oppression that unrestrained human nature is capable of. The humanist state inevitably leads to tyranny and despotism.”
Extract from Firearm News or equally go visit http://www.frontline.org.za

“In fact it’s probably more fair to say that they did what they did because they believed they were gods. Imaginary friends have a LOT to answer for.”

If they did in fact believe they were Gods then they weren’t imaginary friends were they.

“If I’m not mistaken, I seem to recall that Stalin was not atheist in the same way that Hitler was not atheist.”

Really?
G. Gludjidze, a boyhood friend of Stalin’s relates: “I began to speak of God. Joseph heard me out, and after a moment’s silence said: ‘You know, they are fooling us, there is no God….’”
Sounds like an atheist to me!
For Hitler God was used merely as a tool of propaganda, whether or not he really did believe in God remains questionable as his conduct was anything but inspired by Religion.
I won’t even go into how Hitler atrocities were justified by the Darwinian philosophy of Evolution and the survival of the fittest.

Don’t forget Mao tse tung’s state mandated evolution based atheism contributed to the deaths of over 30 million, many of which were christians.

“Just because someone does something bad it does not mean that they do it in the name of their particular ideology.”

I agree, although this cartoon does not imply this.

“if I were to be caught speeding, I would not have done so because I am atheist or secularist, but simply because I am a human being with faults.”

Absolutely true, unfortunately the cartoon you posted states otherwise.

“Please put your blinkered partisanism and propaganda leaflets aside and start discovering your critical thinking skills.”

Perhaps you should think more critically about what you post!
I am niether propagadizing nor am I a partisan.
Character defamation is a very silly and childish form of retaliation.

How odd of you to have taken away the counters off my replies but have left yours on?

And you accuse me of propaganda!

@Janet

You’ll find that the option to vote on a post/comment is only visible/available if you have not already voted on the post in question. Once you have voted you are prevented from doing so again on the same post/comment.

I guess that this is to prevent loading of votes. One man, one vote, the basis of democracy. or in this case, one man, one cookie. If you want to load the votes, simply navigate away from the page, delete the cookie from this site and come back…and hey presto you can vote on your comments again….seemples.

To prove this, vote on this post and you’ll see the count increase and the arrow disappear.

@Janet
The terrifying thing about secular humanist states is that there is no authority above the state to which one can make an appeal.

As opposed to Government by God?

To counter this, the really terrifying thing about theist states is that ‘God’ decrees and decides the fate of the populace.

One man who says “God told me to do it” is declared insane; 2 million men who say “God told me to do it” are declared ‘faithful’.

We could go on for years with examples of atrocities carried out by the religious/holy/spiritual, those simply using god(s) as vehicles to use the population and the non-religious leaders of this world. It won’t get us anywhere, you believe in god, Jumile doesn’t. You telling him that Mao Tse Tung was not a nice man does not change the facts. Just as me telling you that Pope Benedict XVI is essentially committing genocide by not allowing his followers to use condoms as a form of protection and birth control is unlikely to change your viewpoint.

“As opposed to Government by God?”

Am I suppossed to take that comment seriously? If you are religious than God already Governs everything and decides the fate of everything and everyone.

“Pope Benedict XVI is essentially committing genocide by not allowing his followers to use condoms as a form of protection and birth control”

His followers? You mean Catholics that are already instructed NOT to have sex before marriage and in which abortion is (rightly, and that’s my opinion) considered murder?

If you knew what you were doing was wrong and you did it anyway, how can you then blame someone else for your own wrongdoing? Are we not all responsible for our own actions?

In the absence of State governed by Religious ethics, Secularism merely imposes it’s own religion: Totalitarianism.
The civil government presumes a God status as already observed in Communist states, a less than diserable outcome if you ask me.

I would rather live in a society that respects morals and ethics inspired by the Gospel than live in a Secular Humanistic society that see’s no shame in: Adultry, Teen pregnancies, Hedonism, Materialism to name a few, all are linked to Secular Humanism in which the rights of the individual prevails.

[Blatant libel and demonstrable untruths removed for the legal wellbeing of both the commenter and the site owner].

I could go on and name a few more sordid ‘hero’s’ of the Secular Humanism world but I’m afraid I may have stung you enough for one day.
Won’t make you believe there’s a God but maybe question and be more critical of your belief in secluarity of Religion and State and perhaps Secular Humanism in General.

@Janet
“Am I suppossed to take that comment seriously? If you are religious than God already Governs everything and decides the fate of everything and everyone.”

Tosh. Unless you want your ‘hero’ to take responsibility for the events in Haiti and Chile recently.

Please spare me the ‘God moves in mysterious ways’ claptrap bible-thumpers spout when asked why a loving god killed thousands through not acting to save them.

“I know perhaps this may seem shocking to you, but Secular Humanism has allowed for all of the above to be considerd normal and natural behaviour (expressed by animals in the wild) and does it best to justify this position.
The original section ‘Human Sexuality’ in Prometheus Books website was edited by Vern Bullough (CSICOP/CSI Fellow and International Academy of Humanism Secretariat) who was a member of the editorial board of Paidika: The Journal of Paedophilia.””

At least he’s open about it, as opposed to churches who close ranks around paedophiles, protect them from scrutiny and then farm off to another church/parish.

“His followers? You mean Catholics that are already instructed NOT to have sex before marriage and in which abortion is (rightly, and that’s my opinion) considered murder?”

Not all people with AIDS are unmarried…I know you’d like to think otherwise, that maybe AIDS is the wrath of god visited upon the unrighteous. Maybe even some of them are god fearing christians.

You rail against the crimes of secular governments, you must realise that theocracies do not have a great track record.

Let us take, as an example. Afghanistan, look there, tell me that their system worked fairly for all. Your god = their god for the sake of this argument.

“I would rather live in a society that respects morals and ethics inspired by the Gospel than live in a Secular Humanistic society that see’s no shame in: Adultry, Teen pregnancies, Hedonism, Materialism to name a few, all are linked to Secular Humanism in which the rights of the individual prevails.”

Are you trying to convince me that there is no teen pregnancy, adultary, murder, hedonism or materialism in what is arguable the most theistic ‘non-theistic government’ in the western world, the United States? And please don’t suggest that these are all carried out by godless heathens.

Maybe there is a god, maybe there isn’t. I don’t believe there is a god now, nor that there has ever been one. Would believing in a god, any god, after all there are plenty to choose from, make me a better person?* Does not beliving in a god make me less worthy, any more than not wearing blue shoes makes me less worthy? It certainly doesn’t make me more likely to go out and kill/rob/rape/attack someone.

* at this point please do not suggest that the Christian god is any more valid than Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Aztec, Norse, Pagan, Hindi or Native American gods that came before** and were crushed/absorbed by Christianity.

** no, do not say “there was nothing before god” either.

If there is a god, he is a vindictive, evil minded entity, one who is no better than a six year old with a magnifying glass at an anthill, killing at will those who displease him. If he were a parent, social services would be investiging him for child abuse/endangerment.

I would say that there was a time when I did believe in god, but I’m pretty sure that it’s not an accurate statement. I was raised in a household where I was taken to church, sunday school, religious retreats, confession as a child and told that there was a god, that Jesus was his son and that all devout catholics go to heaven. I was also told that all non-catholics (after all, each christian sect is the one true faith) go to hell and that I would be saved from that fate because I was lucky in that my parents were catholic and not baptist/anglican/insert your religious Brand-X here.

I do however know that the vast majority of those I’ve met find it more important to be seen to be devout than to actually be devout. Feel free to insert argument #23 – “this shows that man is fallible”.

I am happy you have found peace in communion with your god. I do however wish that (not just) christians would stop seeing it as their mission to make me see the light and bring me to salvation.

“Please spare me the ‘God moves in mysterious ways’ claptrap bible-thumpers spout when asked why a loving god killed thousands through not acting to save them.”

I would like to inform you that powerful earthquakes and natural disasters will increase and have been foretold they would 2000 years ago.

Matthew 24, speaks of wars on a global scale, famine, pestilence (sickness and disease), lawlessness (crime), people having no love for one another, and earthquakes. There is a parallel account in Luke chapter 21.
I would have thought anyone with any biblical upbringing should know that salvation of the soul is the only salvation worth accounting for, we will all die and our bodies perish.

At least he’s open about it, as opposed to churches who close ranks around paedophiles, protect them from scrutiny and then farm off to another church/parish.

And you think that churches or any other institution that fails to intervene and ‘closes ranks around paedophliles’ will not be punisjed by God?? Each shalll be judged in accordance to their actions.

Anyway, you missed the point I was making here is not whether or not they are open about it but that it is morally wrong!

Not all people with AIDS are unmarried…I know you’d like to think otherwise,

I never said nor implied that people with Aids are all unmarried! Many victims of AIDS are married having contracted the desease from adulterous partners.

Let us take, as an example. Afghanistan, look there, tell me that their system worked fairly for all. Your god = their god for the sake of this argument.

I refuse to trade apples with pears for your arguments sake! It’s painfully obvious that the laws, morals and ethics of the Christian God and Islam and Sharia’s have nothing in common.

“I would rather live in a society that respects morals and ethics inspired by the Gospel than live in a Secular Humanistic society that see’s no shame in: Adultry, Teen pregnancies, Hedonism, Materialism to name a few, all are linked to Secular Humanism in which the rights of the individual prevails.”

Are you trying to convince me that there is no teen pregnancy, adultary, murder, hedonism or materialism in what is arguable the most theistic ‘non-theistic government’ in the western world, the United States? And please don’t suggest that these are all carried out by godless heathens.

I never said there wasn’t but considering your country is considered theistic in nature dosen’t make it so, which you just pointed out (not that I consider USA being a theistic government in nature or conduct).

Maybe there is a god, maybe there isn’t. I don’t believe there is a god now, nor that there has ever been one. Would believing in a god, any god, after all there are plenty to choose from, make me a better person?* Does not beliving in a god make me less worthy, any more than not wearing blue shoes makes me less worthy? It certainly doesn’t make me more likely to go out and kill/rob/rape/attack someone.

I never said you were unworthy or less worthy than anyone, including myself. Nor did I imply that you were ‘likely to go out and kill/rob/rape/attack someone.’

at this point please do not suggest that the Christian god is any more valid than Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Aztec, Norse, Pagan, Hindi or Native American gods that came before** and were crushed/absorbed by Christianity.

I would never suggest that as I already know the God was there in the beginning and will there in the end regardless of whatever followings sprouted in between.

** no, do not say “there was nothing before god” either.

You’ll never hear that from me.

If there is a god, he is a vindictive, evil minded entity, one who is no better than a six year old with a magnifying glass at an anthill, killing at will those who displease him. If he were a parent, social services would be investiging him for child abuse/endangerment.

Since when is destroying evil an evil in itself? God passed judgement on those that were warned against their sins (rapists, child/human sacrificers, cannabalists to name a few) and did not listen and stop what they were doing. Gods justice was neither vindictive nor evil minded unless you agree that rapists, Human(child) sacrifices and cannabalism is ok in your eyes.

I would say that there was a time when I did believe in god, but I’m pretty sure that it’s not an accurate statement. I was raised in a household where I was taken to church, sunday school, religious retreats, confession as a child and told that there was a god, that Jesus was his son and that all devout catholics go to heaven. I was also told that all non-catholics (after all, each christian sect is the one true faith) go to hell and that I would be saved from that fate because I was lucky in that my parents were catholic and not baptist/anglican/insert your religious Brand-X here.

Highly inaccurate statement for anyone to make is to think they are saved without faith or repentance. Your parents faith will not save you, only you can save yourself. If you had actually read the Bible you would know that.

I do however know that the vast majority of those I’ve met find it more important to be seen to be devout than to actually be devout. Feel free to insert argument #23 – “this shows that man is fallible”.

Very unfortunate behaviour, even God realises that we are not perfect, we all fall short in the eye’s of God, hence the sacrifice of Christ so that we can be forgiven.

I am happy you have found peace in communion with your god. I do however wish that (not just) christians would stop seeing it as their mission to make me see the light and bring me to salvation.

Thank you, have found immense peace in God, however you can do what you like with what I’ve wrote it’s up to you how you persue your life. I do wish you peace and love and hope you find both.

I still think the comic is funny.